The full transcript of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” can be found here

Margaret Brennan is moderating this episode of “Face the Nation.”.

Anthony Salvanto, executive director, elections and surveys, CBS News.

Mr. Mark Kelly, an Arizona Democrat.

Kentucky Gov. Democrat Andy Beshear.

Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee Rep. Mike Turner, an Ohio Republican.

The Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago’s president and CEO is Austan Goolsbee.

Administrator of the Drug Enforcement Agency Anne Milgram.

For a complete list of transcripts for “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” click here. ****.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Hello, Martha Brennan here in Washington.

Additionally, this week on Face the Nation, as inflation declines and political debate over economic policies heats up, Democrats are heading to their convention in Chicago.

Both sides focus on the top concern on voters’ minds, which is the economy and inflation, as the presidential contest lineup is expected to be officially announced this week.

(Start Vermont).

U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris (D) and U.S. S. Presidential Candidate: I’m going to take on the bad guys.

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(Rhapsody in Applause).

Vice President Kamala Harris: I intend to push for the enactment of the nation’s first-ever federal prohibition on food price gouging.

Former Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump is the current U.S. S. Candidate for President: The effects of inflation and other recent events have left a great deal of people in shock. They claim that it is the most significant topic. Though I’m not sure if it is, they claim that inflation is the most significant type; however, inflation is a component of the economy.

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MARGARET BRENNAN: President Brennan has two recommendations.

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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Your income will skyrocket if you vote for Trump.

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MARGARET BRENNAN: Along with another false accusation against Vice President Harris.

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DONALD TRUMP, THE FORMER PRESIDENT: Kamala adopted a very communist stance. You were made aware of that. She fully adopted communism. After causing catastrophic inflation, she now wants to destroy our nation.

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MARGARET BRENNAN: In our latest CBS News poll, we’ll provide you with the reasons behind this incorrect perception as well as the candidates’ economic policies.

We will also speak with Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona and Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky, two significant Democrats.

Then: When U. s. While negotiators seem hopeful that Israel and Hamas can reach a cease-fire agreement, Ukraine takes a fresh step to subvert Russia.

Here will be Mike Turner, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

Face the Nation has everything up ahead. Greetings and welcome to Face the Nation this morning.

Our CBS News survey, conducted on the eve of the Democratic National Convention, continues to indicate that the 2024 presidential contest will be extremely close. Nationally, former president Donald Trump is trailing vice president Kamala Harris by three points.

That being said, there is no clear winner in those seven crucial battleground states.

Anthony Salvanto, executive director of elections and surveys at CBS News, joins us with more.

Anthony, it’s good to have you here.

Salutations, Anthony Salvanto.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Alright, so going into a somewhat unique Democratic Convention, what are the top priorities according to voters?

ANTHONY SALVANTO: In order to understand where we came from, let me first explain that this is, in fact, a very close race.

In actuality, keep in mind that the presidency is not decided by the national vote. Those are the states that serve as battlegrounds. When you dissect that and examine our projections in each of those specific battlegrounds, you’ll see race after close race.

This is due to an increase in Democratic enthusiasm following Kamala Harris’s announcement as the front-runner. A greater number of Democrats declared their intention to cast ballots. That increases her polling position. And that still happens now. Democrats and Republicans are now tied for expressed likelihood of turning out.

Thus, try to see them trying to maintain that enthusiasm while you watch the convention. That ranks as the top item.

In response to your second question, which asked voters to define Kamala Harris, a third of respondents stated they were still unsure of her exact platform.

That’s interesting, Margaret Brennan.

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Given how new this whole reset race thing is, it’s interesting but perhaps not surprising.

That’s defining the arena, after all, where the fight to define her will take place within the larger contest. The other aspect of that, I believe, is how she compares to Joe Biden. You know, Joe Biden was trailing in this race, but Democrats still liked him.

Therefore, when we asked voters to rate her similarity to Joe Biden, the majority of them said she was largely, if not exactly, similar in terms of policies and viewpoints. She also performs better in the majority group. That’s the delicate balancing act that Democrats will need to perform before the convention, Margaret.

As I understand it, Margaret Brennan has been observing the widening gender disparity. Do women voters now care whether there is a woman leading the Democratic ticket?

It’s going to be a defining feature of this race, Anthony Salvadoro says. Accordingly, more women are voting for Harris while more men are supporting Trump.

The why, though, is what matters most. To begin with, a greater number of women than men express the belief that Kamala Harris will stand up for those who resemble them. Regarding Donald Trump, men tend to say that more. That ranks first. Second, you examine broader perspectives on how people perceive the movement for gender equality in the United States. S.

People vote for Donald Trump when they think it’s going too far. A large majority of voters are supporting Harris when they feel it hasn’t gone far enough, particularly among women.

Next, let’s examine the crucial matter of the economy in number three. This involves two different things. One is that Harris lags behind Trump in regards to the economy, inflation, and border—all very significant and crucial issues. She performs marginally better than Joe Biden, though, among female voters in terms of the economy.

Women are therefore lending her a little more leeway in that regard. And that, in my opinion, begins to demonstrate that the Democrats should probably start there if they can begin to narrow the difference with Donald Trump on those crucial issues.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The border was brought up. How difficult will it be for Kamala Harris to get over some of that uncertainty?

ANTHONY SALVANTO: This is significant because, despite all the movement in this election that we have discussed, Donald Trump still has an advantage over the border.

More voters believe that border crossings would be slowed or stopped by his policies. When you consider Harris’s association with the administration’s actions thus far, people perceive her as having some, though not necessarily significant, influence. That is, once more, a portion of the area where they will attempt to define her past and future circumstances.

Another important topic, which I must stress because the Democrats will be focusing a lot of their press on it, is abortion. It naturally has a connection to the gender gap and women’s voting rights as well. Democrats have the upper hand when it comes to abortion, says Harris. Voting for her is indicated by 75% of women who believe that abortion should be legal.

That’s something you should definitely pursue, in my opinion. Additionally, Democrats will undoubtedly push for the debate over which issues should be prioritized.

REGGIE BRENNAN: Interesting.

I’m grateful, Anthony Salvanto.

Anthony Salvanto: I’m grateful.

MARGARET BRENNAN: This brings us to Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. He comes to us from Chicago, where tomorrow is the start of the DNC.

Dear Senator, good morning.

Senator Mark Kelly (D-Arizona): Greetings, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you’ve just heard a portion of our survey.

And if we focus on your home state—a crucial battleground—we discover that Vice President Harris is only one point behind Donald Trump. It is anticipated that in the next few days, Donald Trump will make a visit to your state’s border with Mexico.

According to our CBS survey, 48% of eligible voters think there will be more border crossings if Harris wins. To what extent is that viewed as a liability in Arizona?

Senator Mark Kelly: Let me begin by expressing my gratitude to Margaret for inviting me to testify.

Like with so many other issues, the differences between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump on the border are striking. Kamala Harris, too, has backed our bipartisan border security bill, which the president advised Senate Republicans to avoid. She has been tackling this problem, then.

Significantly fewer people are crossing the border into Arizona. She has been concentrating on this matter, as the former president is attempting to compromise our border security. He explicitly informed my Senate colleagues that they couldn’t back this bill since he wanted to use it as a campaign issue.

Before serving in the US Senate for three and a half years, I had never seen anything like this. In my opinion, Kamala Harris is the leader who can guide us towards the future, as evidenced by this statement. All that Donald Trump wants to do is take us back in time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Vice President Harris hasn’t discussed the border much on the campaign trail thus far, so do you know where she stands on the issue? As you just discussed, she expressed her desire to bring the legislation back to life.

Sen. Mark Kelly: Accurate.

MARGARET BRENNAN: She also mentioned a thorough reform that included an earned path to citizenship.

Is she making this her top priority for the next 100 days?

Senator Mark Kelly: I’ve heard her discuss it, though.

The other day, my wife, Gabby Giffords, and I attended an event in Glendale, Arizona, which is just outside of Phoenix. There were 15,000 people in the room, and there was a lot of excitement. The vice president and I had a detailed conversation about how crucial the border is, particularly for border states like Arizona, which I represent.

And border security is just one aspect of it. Really, Kamala Harris is adamant about changing our immigration laws. Our immigration laws contribute to the health of our economy. And once she is elected president, I anticipate that she will continue to concentrate on this.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Alright, so you’ll need the support of the rest of Congress to proceed in that direction. And as you are aware, it has been a barrier thus far.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, that’s the situation that there is still with Donald Trump. Since the Republicans in the US Senate negotiated this bill, I firmly believe they will return to it once he is finished and gone.

And this was not satisfying them.

Yes, Margaret Brennan said.

Senator Mark Kelly:… on this issue, like on the 50-yard line. This involved meeting them on their side of the field at the 10-yard line.

Margaret Brennan: Accurate.

Senator Mark Kelly: And just as Donald Trump claimed they couldn’t vote for the bill, we were on the verge of finishing it.

I therefore anticipate that she will assist us in seeing this through to completion. She also promised to sign it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You mentioned earlier in your 2022 Senate debate that Democrats are ignorant of the border problem. When President Biden made what you described as a “dumb move” by lifting Title 42 pandemic era restrictions without having a backup plan in place, you said that you had to confront him personally.

And how do you advise your fellow Texans to brush it off, considering that you stated that the complaint was valid? Do you also hold Vice President Harris accountable for those choices?

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, in 2022, during what I would consider a crisis at our southern border, I discussed this matter with the White House and my fellow senators, the Democrats as well as the Republicans.

And it was because of those conversations that we were able to reach a consensus that was acceptable to both parties. It covered a wide range of topics as well. It was supposed to give more funding for the construction of facilities to house migrants in transitory detention as well as more Border Patrol agents and pay.

Therefore, we – thus, many things were in effect under this legislation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Additionally, nothing was completed.

Sen. Mark Kelly: Additionally, it was a fair compromise.

Donald Trump, not the administration, is to blame for it not getting done.

MARGARET BRENNAN: However, when you say that Democrats don’t comprehend this issue, do you believe Vice President Harris does as well?

Senator Mark Kelly: She certainly does, without a doubt.

Additionally, I believe that some of the Democrats in the US Senate who weren’t really understanding things in 2022 are starting to understand them now. Because of this, we were expected to be able to provide—I believe the plan called for us to provide roughly 40 votes, while the Republicans were expected to provide about 20. We’d succeed in passing the law.

Subsequently, we could discuss some of Vice President Harris’s other topics, like comprehensive immigration reform.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: However, once more, President Trump is only interested in discussing this matter.

And, incidentally, so do my Senate colleagues.

Margaret Brennan: Alright.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Right after J. D. After Vance was selected as the nominee, he went to Arizona’s southern border to snap a photo.

He doesn’t actually want to fix this. Kamala Harris will fix this problem.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you about Ukraine. I know you are very focused on that war.

Their forces launched this bold incursion into Western Russia, into this Kursk area. Are you comfortable with U. S. weapons being used on Russian soil?

SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, Margaret, yes, I am at this point.

The Ukrainians were illegally attacked by Vladimir Putin. He – I mean, he is intentionally killing women, children, old people. It was an illegal invasion. This incursion, I will just – let’s characterize it that way for now. I don’t think the Ukrainians want to intentionally hold Russian territory for a long period of time.

But this really set Putin back on his heels. He has always tried to characterize himself as somebody that is going to protect Russia. I think his citizens are seeing the results of what he has done in Ukraine, that now they are somewhat at risk.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think….

SENATOR MARK KELLY: A hundred and thirty thousand Russians have had to leave, leave their homes.

Additionally, I believe that the Ukrainians did something unexpected at this point in the conflict that has the potential to drastically alter how it develops.

MARGARET BRENNAN: A letter was sent to President Biden last week by several prominent former officials, including General Breedlove, the former Supreme Allied Commander, urging him to remove limitations on the U.S. s. armaments given to Ukraine so they could attack Russian military targets that were legitimate.

Would you return their calls?

Senator Mark Kelly: All right, Margaret, some of those limitations have already been removed.

Furthermore, we have routinely reviewed our approach to handling the Ukrainians’ utilization of our security assistance since the invasion more than two years ago, as is appropriate. And I believe it’s appropriate to keep examining their requirements, how we can adapt, and what new weaponry we will give them.

MARGARET BRENNAN concurred.

Sen. Mark Kelly: They received F-16s very recently. My hope is that as the Ukrainians gain more experience using that weapon system, we’ll witness some beneficial effects from F-16s on the battlefield.

The same applies to these other weapons as well as ATACMS and HIMARS. Thus..

MARGARET BRENNAN concurred.

SENATOR MARK KELLY: That being said, it is appropriate to periodically review what we permit them to use.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Mark Kelly, I understand. Thank you.

In exactly one minute, Face the Nation will return. Remain with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS).

MARGARET BRENNAN: Ohio Republican Congressman Mike Turner, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, is now joining us.

You have a good morning, sir.

Good morning, Representative Mike Turner (R-Ohio). I appreciate you having me.

It’s nice to have you here in person, Margaret Brennan.

I would like to discuss the ongoing allegations of election meddling. U. s. Iran is reportedly attempting to sway the results of the upcoming election, according to intelligence and the Justice Department. Phishing attempts targeting members of the Trump and Harris campaigns are being looked into by the FBI.

However, as we all know, the supreme leader imposed sanctions on Iran in 2020 for its election-related meddling that hurt Donald Trump. Are you happy with what the social media platforms and you have to offer? s. What are intelligence currently doing?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Here, I believe the administration has not responded.

Microsoft has come forward and said that there has been hacking of the Trump campaign and administration. Excuse me. Iran was trying to do this, including fabricating false information, as the Biden administration had recognized.

Furthermore, however, the administration has admitted that Iran was carrying out a plan to kill Donald Trump, even claiming that one of their own people was involved in the scheme.

However, you haven’t really heard back from the administration. The overwhelming consensus among national security experts is that assassinating a presidential candidate would constitute an act of war committed by a foreign power. Yes, of course, making an effort.

They have really taken off, Margaret Brennan says.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Making an effort is undoubtedly…

MARGARET BRENNAN: a shield.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: It’s attempting, though, and at the very least calls for a reply. Regarding the hacking, disinformation, and purported attempt on Donald Trump’s life, the administration is not holding Iran responsible in any of this.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Apparently, they.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: The lines are not red.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Then you don’t include the person who was apprehending and prosecuting the assassins?

I understand that this is not a matter for law enforcement. REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Okay.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Accurate, however.

This is a nation-state, says REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER.

REGGIE BRENNAN: Hmm.

Rep. Mike Turner:… that the administration is spreading false information and meddling in elections, having carried out a plot to try to kill Donald Trump.

Margaret Brennan: In agreement.

MIKE TURNER, REPRESENTATIVE: Including hacking.

The administration needs to hear back on this.

I am Margaret Brennan, and I am in charge of the intelligence community. You can’t talk about classified information.

But are you suggesting here that there aren’t even covert actions being taken against Iran?

(TALK ON THE CROSS).

Representative Mike Turner: Let me state this clearly: there isn’t a response that affects Iran, deters them, or holds them responsible.

And that, of course, leads to increased activity and emboldens Iran to try to influence our elections and, I believe, put people in danger within our nation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: If sanctions were implemented, which would you prefer?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: You have to start, of course, with an announcement from the administration. Additionally, you could mention that red line statements and an understanding of the subsequent actions are required.

Subsequently, action is required. Now that they are publicly claiming to be in custody someone they believe was involved in an Iranian plot to assassinate Donald Trump, I believe the administration needs to consider how they will respond.

Margaret Brennan: Okay, huh. And – and those other officials associated do still receive protection largely from diplomatic security and – and others. So….

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: So, his – in addition to his Cabinet members that have been threatened.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. So the administration is approving that, though, is my point.

But on what the U. S. intelligence community is assessing about interfering in the election, the director of national intelligence did brief reporters and said that Moscow has not changed its prior preference of candidates, which in 2016 and 2020 was Donald Trump.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, I….

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is enough being done on that front, in terms of that level of meddling, which is expected to continue as well?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I believe that what’s happening here, particularly with Iran, is that they realize that Donald Trump is against Iran and that a powerful America makes the world a safer place.

Margaret Brennan: Hmm.

Representative Mike Turner: In this particular case, it appears that President Trump has made it clear that he wants to resolve the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. However, more investigation into Russian meddling and its actions is warranted.

It is undoubtedly a stronger American stance, but it isn’t anti-Ukraine either. And you were just discussing the limitations that the Biden administration is imposing on Ukraine in this conflict with Senator Kelly.

These are undoubtedly problematic and contribute to the current situation, which may be an attrition war for Ukraine.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, let’s get right to the point. I know you support removing additional restrictions, which I believe he supported.

PRESIDENT MIKE TURNER: Certainly.

MARGARET BRENNAN: However, to what extent is this predicated on the necessity that the Biden administration has five months remaining?

This is also the Trump/Vance position: “That war is not one that America should continue.”. Do you think you should accelerate over the next five months because J. D. It is evident from my numerous interviews with Vance that he does not require ongoing financial support.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I certainly support Ukraine, but nobody is in favor of this war going on.

And I think a concern with the Biden administration’s restrictions, also needing to get them modified, is, Ukraine is – is finally in a position where they can hold Russia accountable. They’ve now crossed into Russian territory, if they can. We can alter the situation on the ground if they can use long-range weaponry to hold Russia accountable for its legitimate military targets that are attacking Ukraine.

You can’t continue to just have a front line in Ukraine, where Russia is outproducing weapon systems that Ukraine – from – from Ukraine has and have this – this turn out well for Ukraine.

In this instance, if the Biden administration’s restrictions are lifted, we also know, even if there is a Harris administration that follows, that – that Ukraine’s support would be there, the ability to – to hold Russia accountable would be there.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve expressed worry about authoritarian countries acting aggressively and endangering democracies.

Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping were recently described by Donald Trump as wonderful people. He made this claim on Thursday.

(Start Vermont).

President Donald Trump, a Republican, is the current president of the United States. S. Presidential Candidate: I have no intention of causing harm to Iran. I hope that we will have a friendly relationship with Iran, but that may not happen. But amicability will prevail. I hope our relationship will be cordial. But a nuclear weapon is off the table. They are unable to possess a nuke.

And once they get hold of a nuclear weapon, things get very different, so we were all set to make sure they don’t.

(Vend VT).

MARGARET BRENNAN: You would undoubtedly take issue with Democrats claiming they want to have friendly relations with Iran.

Do you think Mr. Trump’s contradictory messages make sense?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Not sure if the messaging is really mixed, to be honest.

It is not weakness on your part to – acknowledge some of the strengths of your opponents. Actually, as you may know, Donald Trump exerted the greatest amount of diplomatic and military pressure—more than any previous administration—on Iran.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Moreover, their nuclear issue persisted.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: They were in a precarious situation. As a matter of fact, they had.

MARGARET BRENNAN: They brought it back up.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: They’d slowed down in their processes.

What we see now with this administration, they might have – they might declare themselves a nuclear weapons state by the end of this year. With the – reports have been – news reports have been out stating that there’s – there’s a possibility….

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you saying that the supreme leader has changed his conclusion on this?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: There is a – there is a possibility, with the advances that have been made under the Biden administration’s policy, that Iran could – reports are out that Iran could declare itself a nuclear weapons state by the end of the year.

If – and you would have not have had that….

MARGARET BRENNAN: But that conclusion hasn’t been made, has it?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: No.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: But you – you would not have had that under the Trump administration’s maximum pressure campaign.

The flexibility and freedom that they have had….

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: … under the Biden administration has given them the ability to both try to influence our elections….

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: … actively….

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well….

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: … try to undertake a plot to assassinate Donald Trump….

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: … and to continue their nuclear weapons and their nuclear enrichment programs.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

We have got to leave it there, Chair Turner.

We will be right back.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Thank you. Thanks.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS).

MARGARET BRENNAN: CBS News will be covering the Democratic National Convention every night starting tomorrow through Thursday.

Tune in for our prime-time coverage starting at 8:00 p. m. EST on our round-the-clock streaming service. After that, at ten, coverage will resume on our broadcast network.

We’ll return immediately.

(Notifications).

MARGARET BRENNAN: Ky. Gov. Andy Beshear, Chicago Federal Reserve Bank President Austan Goolsbee, and DEA Chief Anne Milgram will be back soon.

Come along with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS).

RETURNING TO FACE THE NATION is MARGARET BRENNAN.

Andy Beshear, the governor of Kentucky, joins us now. He arrived this morning from Frankfort.

Salutations, Governor.

GOVT. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): Good morning. Thanks for having me.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we know that you are an advocate for Vice President Harris. And as a Democrat who runs a red state, how would you advise Democrats to stop losing support in rural areas?

ANDY BESHEAR: Well, I’d advise them to – to, first of all, focus on those things that matter most to people when they wake up in the morning. When people wake up in the morning, they’re not thinking about this presidential election, they’re thinking about their job and whether they make enough to support their family. They’re thinking about their next doctor’s appointment for themselves, their kids. They’re thinking about the roads and bridges that they drive. They’re thinking about the school they drop their kids off at. And they’re thinking about the public safety in their community. That’s why I’m so excited about the vice president’s new economic plan. I think it goes right to the heart of how you support your family. With two tax credit extensions or expansions that will help the middle class. It goes to affording health care in capping overall pharmaceutical costs. The – the bipartisan infrastructure law further helps us on the roads and bridges we travel.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

ANDY BESHEAR: So, very excited to support the Harris-Walz team. They’re going to have a big victory.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, to get many of those things done, the – the vice president would need a congress to work with her. So, those aren’t quick fixed necessarily.

But on the Harris economic plan that you mentioned, there was also this federal ban on price gouging on food and penalties for companies that exploit crises. President Obama’s top economist, Jason Furman, was critical, saying, “the good case scenario is price gouging is a message, not a reality, and the bad case scenario is that this is a real proposal. You’ll end up with bigger shortages, less supply and ultimately risk higher prices and worse outcomes for consumers. “.

Do you know how this would work?

ANDY BESHEAR: I do, because I’ve been an attorney general just like the vice president. I pursued price gouging statutes and their violations when it comes to the price of gas if Kentucky, and we won. And ultimately returned millions of dollars to our people.

The goal here is not to try and fix prices. It simply involves ensuring that the economy is functioning as it should. essentially, this is a matter of respect for supply and demand. It’s no different than what Teddy Roosevelt did in breaking up monopolies. Ensuring that appropriate regulations and resources are available to ensure that all players are treating the game equally and adhering to the rules is the only concern.

BREAM: It seems like you’re only discussing antitrust laws, but – this is something J. D. In fact, Vance concurs. Republicans, however, as you may know, are accusing Harris of supporting price controls akin to those found in communist nations, where prices are set by the government rather than by the free market. It’s not price control, as you recently stated. However, in the event that you lack a benchmark, could you please clarify how you define an excessive price?

Andy Beshear: To start, these are the kinds of statutes found in state law. Violators of price gouging have been prosecuted by the attorney general of Texas. It is unlikely that anyone will assert that he or the vice president engages in price fixing. This needs to be supported by data.

In the end, you must prove your case in court when you file an action. For this to be beyond supply and demand, you must have proof. that this is an example of someone taking advantage of us. Yes, it has been observed in both blue and red states following major national disasters. Making sure that people aren’t raising the price of food in order to increase profits is all that’s needed when the pandemic or hard times pass.

MARY BRENNAN: In agreement.

Andy Bear: All it entails is ensuring capitalism stays within its bounds. It’s also not brand-new. In the States, we’ve been doing this for a very long time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you also mentioned some of the federal support for ongoing initiatives, such as the use of electric vehicles. I know Kentucky has been talking a lot about luring some of these plants there, with $11 billion invested in EV infrastructure. At least three of these are scheduled to open in 2025. What is the ratio of union to non-union jobs there?

ANDY BESHEAR: Well, union labor is being used in the construction of every facility. Throughout the course of that lengthy construction, thousands and thousands of jobs were created. Now, due to an agreement made between CEO Farley and Shawn Fain of Ford and the UAW, when the Ford Escape plants open, that won’t be union labor. And we honor their negotiations and those agreements.

Now, what it did mean is that 10,000 plus UAW workers in Ford’s two other facilities in Kentucky got better wages, better benefits, a better life for their family. So, we’re excited about how the union and the company were able to come together to reach an agreement that works for everybody. And that’s what we want to see, right? We want to see companies continue to invest because we need them, but we want them to be good jobs that support our families. And I think that’s the outcome we got here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ve seen this interesting phenomenon though where – where red states, often right-to-work states, like Kentucky is, have benefited from the these federal investments and subsidies. But we don’t really hear Democrats talking about that too much.

Do you think that companies are opening plants in right-to-work states like yours because the labor is simply cheaper?

ANDY BESHEAR: I have never heard an employer talk about right to work in Kentucky. In fact, we’ve opened a number of facilities that have union workers. We see more and more companies using the building trades, union labor, to build their facility. In fact, union membership has gone up in Kentucky each of the last two years. And certainly our building trades are busier than they have ever been. This may be the golden age of union labor in Kentucky despite having those terrible statutes on the books.

But my job as governor isn’t to whine or complain about the statutes we have, but to go out and to build the best lives for our people. And certainly the bipartisan infrastructure law, the Inflation Reduction Act, the be (ph) program, they require reasonable wages where employers immediately turn to labor, to organized labor, because they know they’re the most skilled and the very best. And I’m now seeing better interaction between companies and organized labor than I have in decades. It’s really exciting.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And I know you’ll be talking about labor and its role at the convention later in week.

Governor, thank you very much for your time today.

We’ll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS).

MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Austan Goolsbee, the president and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. Before taking on that a-political role, he had previously served in the Obama administration.

Good morning to you.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE (President and CEO, The Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago): Hi. Great to see you again, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, President Goolsbee, “Barron’s” had a piece yesterday saying that the most consequential event this fall won’t be the U. S. election, it won’t be a war in the Middle East, it will be the Federal Reserve’s decision in September to lower interest rates for the first time in more than four years.

Is that a certainty? Do you think it is time to lower rates?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Well, I don’t think it’s a certainty and I – I don’t like, as you know, tying our hands ahead of time when we’ve got a lot of data to come in and everyone on the committee is going to get to speak their piece. And it’s a – it’s a committee decision.

We try, as the Fed, to make clear what our reaction function is. If you want to call it that. I invite everybody to go read the statement of economic projections which every – in our – in our world colloquially we call it the . plot where we outline every quarter, what do the members of the committee individually think will be the appropriate policy for each of the next three years and what economic conditions do they expect to correspond with those.

And we’ve been making clear for quite a while what economic conditions would be appropriate for us to cut rates, for us to hold rates where they are, and things like that. And I do think that the – we set an interest rate more than a year ago at a high level because we’re fighting inflation. And the economic conditions today are very different than they were when we set the rate at this level.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, interest rates and supply of housing impact what consumers end up paying for shelter. What is going to bring down shelter costs? Because that was such a big part of inflation number that we just saw.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Well, look, Margaret, you know as much as anybody about this. The biggest puzzle that we’ve seen in the inflation numbers has been the persistently high inflation rate on shelter and housing. And we – we can get a little mixed up because that official measure is very – is a very lagging indicator of what the actual housing price conditions are on the ground. So, our puzzle has been why the market rents inflation rate has come down, but that hasn’t yet been reflected into the official backward looking housing inflation.

So, one of the things that’s going to bring it down is just, we’re going to keep getting more data, and that’s going to get incorporated into the official series. But the second is the interest rate, how it works, how the Fed stabilizes business cycle is when it tightens the screwdriver, the interest rate goes up and the demand for housing goes down. And so, some of those interest rate sensitive sectors of the economy, weakness in that is – – is partly how the monetary transmission takes place and the inflation rate softens.

And it’s worth noting that last year inflation fell by almost as much as it has ever fallen in a single year in the United States.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: And that happened without a recession, which is unparalleled. So as we move through ’24, we hope to continue doing some of that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s a component of the elaborate dance the Fed is performing at this point.

Bank of America’s CEO was with us last weekend on FACE THE NATION, and he told us his economists are no longer predicting a recession, but he did say there’s a risk if the Fed does not start to move rates down.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP).

BRIAN MOYNIHAN (CEO, Bank of America): They’ve told people rates probably aren’t going to go up. But if they don’t start taking them down relatively soon, you could dispirit the American consumer. Once the American consumer really starts going very negative, then it’s hard to get them back.

(END VIDEO CLIP).

MARGARET BRENNAN: He also said corporations aren’t using their lines of credit due to the higher rates. What do you make of that caution?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think it’s a valid caution. When rates are this high, if you take a measure of how tight the Fed is, as just what’s the rate minus what’s the inflation rate, when you set a rate high like we have and hold it there while inflation falls, you’re actually tightening. Credit conditions are getting tighter. And when we go out in the Chicago seventh district, you can hear from business leaders and community leaders around the district that credit conditions on them are tight. When you bank loans and what the rates they pay and credit availability is right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: So, I think he’s right. I think you’ve got to have a caution when you see small business defaults rising like they have been rising, when you see consumer credit delinquencies, credit card delinquencies rising like they’ve been rising, those are warning signs.

Now there’s – there’s some others that are more positive. But they’re – they’re definitely of concern. And if you keep too tight for too long, you will have a problem on the employment side of the Fed’s mandate.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, a recession for you, is it off the table?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: No. Look, you’ve seen the table at the FOMC meetings.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I know.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: A huge table.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I know.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Everything is always on the table. With – there’s a possibility of recession. The last GDP growth number was higher than expected. So, that was a – that was one of the bright spots. But you always got to worry about every contingency. That’s the job of the central banker.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you as well about what’s happening with what people pay at the grocery store. The San Francisco Fed found that corporate markups, what some might call price gouging, are not a primary contributor to inflation. Do your economists agree?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Well, look, this – this has turned into a campaign election kind of battleground, so I’m – the Fed is not political. We’re not in the elections business.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m not asking you a political question.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I’m not going to get into that.

I – I think that it’s worth remembering that there are dynamics at play. That is over time wages tend to move slower than prices. So, if some shock hits, prices go up, then wages go up. Then prices come down, then wages come down.

And so, if you look at any given moment, that markup, sort of the difference between what’s happening to prices and what’s happening to cost, that can vary a lot over the business cycle. So, I just caution everybody over concluding from any one observation about markups.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are tariffs inflationary?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: It sounds funny to say it depends what you mean by inflationary. Tariffs raise prices. But in terms of something that – inflationary is about the rate of growth of prices. And one-time increase in costs will raise prices but is not an extended inflationary thing. So, whether you want to call that inflationary or not, they – they raise costs and they raise prices.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Austan Goolsbee, we want your perspective as one of the top economists in the country. I know you left politics behind and I’ve made you a little uncomfortable by asking you some of these questions, but we want to bottom line it.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: Yes, look, you’re the – you’re the smartest in the business, Margaret. And any – any time you want to talk Fed mandate, inflation or employment, I’m – I’m always – I’m always up for it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Austan Goolsbee, thank you for your time.

We’ll be back in a moment.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS).

MARGARET BRENNAN: Fentanyl and other so-called synthetic opioids are the main driver behind overdose deaths in the United States according to the CDC. But in light of the recent death of actor Matthew Perry from an overdose of ketamine, a controlled substance that can be used in clinical and therapeutic settings, there are growing concerns over the abuse of that drug as well.

Joining us now to discuss it all is the head of the Drug Enforcement Administration, Anne Milgram. She’s in New York this morning.

Welcome back, Administrator.

ANNE MILGRAM (Administrator, U. S. Drug Enforcement Administration): Thank you for having me.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you just had these arrests this week. As we outlined, ketamine is an anesthetic, but it can be used to treat depression in times. When you announced these charges, you said this was a case of where substance abuse began in a doctor’s office and then it ended up in the street. How common is the abuse of ketamine now?

ANNE MILGRAM: That’s right, Margaret. So, in the case of Mathew Perry’s death, we announced charges again the five individuals who we believe are responsible for that. And again, what happened there is, it started with two unscrupulous doctors who were violating really – we charge violating their oath, which is to take care of their patients. And instead,, supplying Matthew Perry with enormous quantities of ketamine in exchange for huge amounts of money. And then it switched to the street, where Matthew Perry was buying the ketamine from two drug traffickers on the streets of Los Angeles.

And so this, unfortunately, is a tragic (INAUDIBLE) that we have seen thinking back to the opioid – at the beginning of the opioid epidemic where many Americans became addicted to control substances in doctor’s offices and through medical practitioners that then turned into street addiction as well.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, exactly to that point, it sounds a bit like the beginning of the opioid crisis when we were talking about pill mills. Now you are seeing ketamine clinics pop up for – and claim to be treatment for depression and other things. Do they need to be more regulated? How do you get your arms around this?

ANNE MILGRAM: So, one of the things that’s important to recognize – so ketamine is a controlled substance. And it is – it is – it has a high potential, obviously, for addiction and other challenges. The FDA regulates the medical prescribing of ketamine. And so they have approved it as an anesthesia. They have approved it through a nasal spray for the treatment of depression. And so they regulate the medical side of this.

At DEA, what we’re focused on, we’re focused on doctors, nurse practitioner, anyone who is essentially diverting legitimate controlled substances from the normal medical practice to do what we saw happening here, where doctors, these doctors, were not evaluating Matthew Perry, they were not supervising injections, they were leaving behind vials of ketamine for Matthew Perry to be injected by his assistant.

And so, again, we’re focused on the control substance side. But we, every single day, are targeting and investigating doctors, nurse practitioners, others, who are violating this duty of trust to their patients by over prescribing medicine or prescribing medicine that isn’t necessary. And here, again, what we’ve alleged is that these doctors were seeking a huge payout from Matthew Perry. They charged him around $50,000 over the course of one month to supply ketamine.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.

Fentanyl is also used in medical settings. But it also happens to be the leading cause of death for Americans between the ages of 18 and 45 according to the DEA. That is a stunning statistic.

We have heard a lot about this on the campaign trail. We have heard President Biden talk about sanctioning, you know, Chinese entities, about charges against Mexican cartels doing business with Chinese groups, and yet we are still hear about a high degree of overdoses due to fentanyl. Why is it so hard to crack down on?

ANNE MILGRAM: Margaret, you’re correct to draw attention to the fact that 107,941 American lives were lost to methamphetamine and fentanyl in 2022. And the terrible, terrible situation we find ourselves in is that fentanyl is pervasive in every single community in the United States, from coast to coast and all points in between. What we are witnessing is that the two Mexican cartels responsible for producing fentanyl, the Jalisco and Sinaloa cartels, are doing so for pennies on the dollar. Thus, this medication is the least expensive one we have encountered. Furthermore, the two cartels’ essentially penny-cost production—along with the chemicals they are sourcing from China—are the only things restricting the quantity of drugs that can be produced.

In other words, we are battling what I believe to be the biggest drug threat we have ever encountered. Furthermore, saving American lives is our top priority at DEA. Working across their whole network is one of the main ways we’re achieving that. Over 50 countries worldwide are home to both of those cartels. We’re going after every link in that global supply chain, starting with the Chinese chemical companies and Chinese nationals who were charged both this year and last year, going all the way up to the Mexican cartel leaders and manufacturers, the people who sell drugs in the US on their behalf, and the people who launder money while working for the cartels.

In 2023 we took action across that entire network.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

ANNE MILGRAM: In 2024, we’ll follow suit. Thus, we are implementing a strategic plan to dismantle these networks. And things are starting to change. However, given how highly addictive fentanyl is and how even small doses can be fatal, much more work needs to be done. And for the first time the cartels are hiding fentanyl in other drugs.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

ANNE MILGRAM: They are all fentanyl and filler, but they are made to look like legitimate prescription medications.

Yes, Margaret Brennan said.

ANNE MILGRAM: So, this is simply a drastically altered environment that we’ve now turned to confront head-on. Also, we battle those two cartels every day in an effort to put an end to fentanyl and save lives.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Alright, so the president of Mexico has declared that he will not take on the Mexican drug cartels. His slogan is hugs not bullets. The new incoming president who gets sworn in October 1st has said she’s follow the policies of her predecessor. That’s going to be a big problem for your enforcement, isn’t it?

ANNE MILGRAM: So, we have to work across the globe to stop this threat, to stop Americans from dying. And so again we’re focused on – we’ve made a number of criminal charges in China. We’ve also begun, since last November, when President Biden met with President Xi, we started to have engagements again.

MARGARET BRENNAN concurred.

We’ve gotten back in touch with the Chinese Ministry of Public Security, Anne Milgram said. Recently, we took down a case in Los Angeles where we connected – we basically showed that a Chinese money laundering organization was working directly with the Sinaloa cartel.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

ANNE MILGRAM: In China, they made one arrest. And in Mexico they made one arrest.

Okay, Margaret Brennan.

ANNE MILGRAM: Our ability to collaborate effectively will enable us to make a difference and neutralize this threat.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will keep tabs on your advancement, Administrator Milgram.

We intend to return soon.

(NOTES).

MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us today. Thank you for watching. For FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS).