Angelina Jolie, Demi Moore, Zendaya, and the Actress Roundtable posed the question, “Who Am I When I’m Not Working?”

Gazing across a table on a Saturday afternoon in November at the Soho House’s Luckman Club in West Hollywood, Tilda Swinton would describe the space as one of “scorching glamour.”. Three adorable dogs were sniffing around in the midst of all that charm: Mikey Madison’s chihuahua puppy, Jam; Demi Moore’s micro chihuahua, Pilaf; and Zendaya’s tiny black schnauzer, Noon. This year, Angelina Jolie (Maria), Zoe Saldaña (Emilia Pérez), Madison (Anora), Moore (The Substance), Swinton (The Room Next Door), and Zendaya (Dune: Part Two and Challengers) joined THR’s annual Actress Roundtable to discuss how to flourish in contemporary Hollywood. In reference to the occasionally isolating existence of women in the arts, Jolie noted, “Many women in the past didn’t have this table.”. They lacked a sense of community. “”.

Who among us has ever accepted a position for which you were genuinely thrilled and then returned home wondering, “What have I just done?”.

Usually, ZOE SALDAÑA. Right now, I’m working on a series called Lioness, which has a lot of dialogue. By assuming a role that was extremely commanding and had a lot of dialogue, I hoped to push myself and deal with my anxiety and dyslexia. After saying “yes,” I went home and said to my partner, “I don’t think I can do this.”. Obviously, the following day was just about getting down to business and making all the necessary tools to get there.

TILDA SWINTON I was in every shot of my second film. Following a night of filming, I recall returning home, lying in the bathtub, and attempting to devise a plan to break into the British Film Institute, where the film was being made, in order to confiscate and destroy the films. Rathbone Place is a London street that I was familiar with. There would be a night watchman, I assumed. I was actually heading in that direction; what could I do to divert his attention? It was simply unthinkable to me that any movie in which I appeared in every frame would be anything but intolerable. My face is kind of fuzzed out the first few times I watch a movie in which I appear, like on those police videos, you know? Then, gradually, like the third time, I’ll say, “Oh yeah, it’s you.”. Does anyone understand that?

DEMI MOORE During the first few viewings, there is always a small amount of analysis of what you have done and what you could have done. After that, you can take a step back and truly see the whole thing, letting go of your ego’s attachment to what other people think. Can you, however, still watch yourself? I am unable to do so.

ANGELINA JOLIE I also struggle with self-control. I’ve never seen a lot of movies. I’m never able to watch Dailies.

SWINTON You haven’t seen any movies? Whoa. That sounds really alluring. I might give in to temptation.

JOLIE No, because I believe that presentation of self is a source of discomfort for all of us. Even though I adore my job, I don’t want to worry about how I sound or look because I doubt that I would be as free if I did. I do want the audience to connect after it’s over, but I’m powerless to do that.

ZENDAYA I am extremely self-conscious. I’m really critical of myself in everything I do. Additionally, I discover that one of the few situations where I don’t judge myself is on a set. I can simply be very liberated. Since I’m thinking, “Wait, it’s not me.”. Therefore, I don’t mind observing myself. Actually, I never feel strange about it until I realize that people will be watching. I’m like, “Oh, now I’m self-conscious about the work that I just made,” when it comes time to promote something. However, until now, I had only been in my own little creative bubble. Not until you acknowledge that “this won’t belong to just me forever” does my mind begin to move.

MOORE That is a highly developed location. I’m just going to take that small treasure.

SWINTON However, what you’re talking about is that when you see yourself on a monitor, the light simply isn’t you; it’s not yours. It’s cosmetics. It is the outfit. It’s the layout. I recall thinking in week 10 of the second movie, which I was in every frame of, “I want a little bit of praise.” That was years ago. But I was too arrogant to ask for it. “Where am I going to get it from?”. “I know what I’ll do,” I thought. Since I’m in 99 percent of the film, I’ll ask the editor which shot he thought was his favorite so far. I then asked the editor, “What is your favorite shot?” and he replied, “Oh, that’s really hard.”. Hmm. “Yeah, I think I’ve got it,” he finally said. Here is a close-up of you. I’m not sure how he accomplished it. It was also brilliant. I was instantly cured by it. “Yeah, how did the cinematographer do that? How did the cinematographer frame it and light it?” I asked, and I was right. Actually, it has nothing to do with me. As a result, I never again requested praise. You are addressing that, too. Because you say, “Well done, everyone,” after looking at the monitor. There are others there besides you, but you are there somewhere.

ZENDAYA You really are a synthesis of the ideas of all these brilliant people. We were just discussing gestures at Jolie in relation to directing because I would love to do it myself someday and you’ve done it beautifully. Directing is something that really terrifies me, and [Jolie] used to say, “But there are people to help you.”. We get to collaborate with these amazing groups of people who are as creative as we are, creating the characters we portray.

Mikey, the first scene in Anora where you’re in this nightclub comes to mind when I consider the lack of self-consciousness on set. From what I understand, the script included little guidance. You were just instructed to approach possible clients. How was that?

Mikey Madison improvised everything. [Director] Sean Baker made the entire set live. A DJ is playing, and the music is blaring. Men are everywhere in the club, including my coworkers. Sean used a long lens to capture the image. He was in the club’s corner, and he would simply follow me around to pick up men, chat with my coworkers, and try to entice men to join me for a dance in the back room. A lot of pressure was placed on me to fully comprehend my character and the relationship between a dancer and a client. I therefore conducted a great deal of research on that topic, speaking with consultants and observing dancers at clubs. Three rolls of film totaling thirty minutes were shot, and the film was then condensed into a few minutes that serve as Ani’s introduction.

What was the most helpful thing you learned about that life from a dancer?

MADISON Absolutely everything, my god. simply being aware of the psychological aspects of working as a sex worker. It’s mentally as much as physically taxing because you have to approach someone and make an effort to establish a connection right away. Additionally, you spend the entire day dancing while wearing extremely high stilettos. just being aware of the endurance that accompanies that. One of the most influential things that has ever happened to me is the opportunity to get to know the sex work community. I greatly admire what they accomplish. Without all of that preparation, Ani would have been a totally different person.

Prior to having the opportunity to truly get to know them as individuals, did you have a different notion of who they were?

MADISON Indeed… There is a performance of my character when she is with clients or in a club. She has been sexualized in this way. For every face she encounters, she is making a face. And I do believe that as an actress, I was able to identify that and comprehend that being a dancer requires having excellent listening skills.

How did it feel, Zoe, to resume dancing in Emilia Pérez, where you first got your start in this field?

It truly was a gift, SALDAÑA. I had the chance to reestablish a connection with aspects of myself that I had unknowingly abandoned. If you’re from New York, you’re born with jazz hands and spend your entire life un-jazzing them. I recall as a child passing Lincoln Center and hearing my grandmother say, “Look, look, look,” as she smoked a cigarette. She would say something like, “One day, one day you’re going to be there.”. And I recall asking myself, “What is she saying?” It’s really lovely when everything comes full circle. However, I do think that you need to figure out how to make them happen.

What specifically did you manifest?

By genuinely desiring it. I developed the habit of always operating on autopilot. I have no regrets about being a part of many successful movies that went on to become franchises. They provided me with a lot. However, they take a lot of time. And I’m starting a family at the same time as this. Therefore, as the years passed, my desire to develop and break through whatever glass ceiling I felt I was falling under grew stronger. Before hiring Emilia Pérez, my team and I created a list a few years prior. “I would love to collaborate with these five directors,” I said. Jacques Audiard placed among the top three. That was the cherry on top—singing and dancing.

What did your role as Maria Callas teach you about yourself, Angelina?

JOLIE A lot, a lot. Someone in my life once told me that I was not a good singer. The extent to which that had blocked me was unknown to me. I was oblivious to the extent of my voicelessness. I had no idea that life, whether it be childbirth, death, a loved one, illness, or anything else, could alter your voice so drastically. However, we have physical possessions. We undergo a transformation. I’m 49 years old, and I lost my voice somewhere along the line. Therefore, having someone hold my hand during these seven months of training, help me take a deep breath, and assist me in trying to make sound again was such a gift. Since opera is the only thing I’ve ever done where you use your entire vocal range, your entire physical body, and your entire emotion, I strongly advise anyone who hasn’t tried it to give it a try. Additionally, we are rarely asked for, encouraged, or permitted to give our all, especially as women. We are adapting to the space, our kids, and the community. We don’t burst out with everything; something molds us along the way. We include Maria Callas. She was a woman who was by herself a lot. So, sitting here, thinking of her, and knowing that she didn’t have this table, is why it’s so beautiful. Many women did not have this table in the past. Women were less likely to be involved in particular activities, and they lacked a sense of community. I arrived here today to my surprise. We have all known one another for a very long time. We’ve never met. It’s really odd.

MOORE There aren’t many chances for us to reflect as artists and form community connections. The experience can be somewhat isolating.

SALDAÑA I take it that you are encouraged to be alone? It used to be that you had to be hyper-focused on your journey at all times and not ask for help. or refuse to offer assistance…

Because it’s not real, SWINTON, it’s a mirage. We are all aware of the significance of our female friends. Everything is involved. The perception of men is that they don’t feel as united as women. It’s their problem. And if it’s true, they need to discover it. Although there is a peculiar sort of myth surrounding it, it is most likely untrue. However, aside from me, this is a stunning table with all the glitz. However, it is important to support women in just shooting the breeze. In addition, there is the notion that women do not produce motion pictures. We all know, after all, that women have been directing movies since the dawn of cinema. Probably in 1904, Lois Weber was the first director. The truth is that. However, it exudes an odd kind of mesmerism. All of us are expected to forget it. Furthermore, we are all meant to be pitted against one another.

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More importantly, it isn’t a competition. In contrast, when one rises, we all rise. That has been the delusion. And that we grow exponentially when we follow the path together.

SWINTON I don’t think it works for women, but it might work for men or the male-dominated society. I believe we are capable of doing this. What we do is this. Yes. You see, we sit around tables, talk, help one another, and observe one another.

Women’s criticism of our bodies is the subject of Demi, The Substance. Why were you drawn to that?

MOORE The script’s exploration of the aging issue was a fascinating and unconventional read indeed. My attention was drawn to the examination of the violence we can commit against ourselves as a means of self-criticism and analysis. In my own life, I’ve discovered that it’s not really what anyone else has ever done to me. The effect has always been internalized in what I do to myself.

SWINTON The outing scene [in which the middle-aged character examines herself]. My Lord, please.

SALDAÑA The depiction of what we can do to ourselves, how we harm ourselves every day, sometimes without even touching our bodies, was so personal and unvarnished. You were extremely critical of yourself, even in the way you were viewing yourself. Simply put, I sensed it.

MOORE My scenes were nearly entirely solo, which is another aspect of acting that I have never really investigated. I also don’t have any dialogue. Thus, it was all of those strange, private times when we are often naked, examining, analyzing, and reflecting on ourselves. I had no one else to rely on, so creating a full life for her was an incredibly interesting challenge. In addition, it was highly technical. The sensitivity of an actor’s process is frequently subordinated to the technical aspects. It was very relatable, though. It was a crucial message that we all needed to hear in order to begin reassessing how we view ourselves. Having three daughters, I’ve had a lot of discussions. “I want to stop wasting time focusing on all that I’m not, when I could be celebrating all that I am,” my middle daughter once said. I initially said, “Maybe I did a good job,” but that was the end of it.

How can we escape it if women do this to us?

MOORE In the end, it’s about accepting who you are. It’s about accepting ourselves for who we are at this moment. It has to do with how we change. The mirror reflection is different. She’s simply more loosely wrapped, as one woman put it. I doubt that I would trade being more “tightly wrapped” for the knowledge I’ve acquired and the woman I’ve grown into today. At the same time, I embrace the dark sides of myself and value all the various aspects of who I am that have helped me get to where I am. When we can see our successes as a result of overcoming our setbacks and challenges, we can see them as a chance for improvement and a victory.

We’re used to seeing you play a child or a teenager, Zendaya. You play a mature woman in Challengers for a significant amount of the film. How did you find that to be different?

ZENDAYA I played a teenager for a long time, long after I was a child. One of the best blessings in my life has been getting to play Rue [on HBO’s Euphoria]. However, you have to start playing at your own age and beyond at some point. Additionally, it was frightening. My first time playing a leading lady and participating in the production process was in Challengers. It was all both intimidating and incredibly exciting. However, you find yourself thinking, “I simply must play this woman,” after reading about certain characters. I found her to be refreshing. She makes no apologies for having to live through other people or for her need for control as her life falls apart. I really enjoy my work, so it resonated with me. I feel so fortunate to be able to make a living doing this. Her true love was tennis, and I wonder, “What if it was all taken away?”. And it’s taken from her in an instant. She no longer recognizes herself in the absence of this item. In my own life, I’ve been employed since I was a young child, and I remember thinking, “Wait, who am I when I’m not working? Do I have a life? What do I even like to do? What are my hobbies? Like, who is Zendaya behind this?”.

SALDAÑA Something about your character struck a chord with me: we repress feelings that we’d rather not acknowledge. Because these men, in your character’s opinion, were so undeserving of this gift and talent, she was extremely envious. The fact that a woman could match a man in intelligence, skill, and wit was simply astounding. She didn’t compete with other women. It was her life’s partners.

ZENDAYA Her boys. And it involved examining aspects of a life that I haven’t yet experienced, like getting married or starting a family. The larger discussion about never giving women the room to grieve also comes to mind. She simply turns around at once and says, “All right, new plan. giving ourselves time to be human. We don’t need to remain composed.

SWINTON That’s what makes us human. It has to do with a relationship with achievement. Success is viewed as the ultimate goal, and you should pursue it at all costs. It has a very clear meaning for a sports fan. And the rest comes in second, third, or fourth. Because we artists need our lives, it’s easier for us to find out where the living takes place. If not, we are unable to complete our work.

Moreover, there is the identity issue. Because our actions don’t truly define who we are, we ask ourselves, “Who am I without?”. But finding that within yourself takes time. You’re just trying to see what you can do in your early years. In the event that you find enough of it, you will need to live apart and maintain greater equilibrium in your life. You’ve made some mistakes after living long enough. You’ve experienced some setbacks and bounced back. The best teaching tool is that. living. And then it gets better and better and better, as we know.

In other words, do you think you’ve discovered your interests and identity outside of work?

ZENDAYA The following query. (He laughs. I’m trying to figure it out. Apart from work, what makes me happy? For me, it’s trying new things, even if they seem foolish, like pottery or anything physical. You see, I can now make a decent scone. I’m just attempting to find out what my life is like outside of my public persona.

SWINTON A lot of us haven’t had that experience, but you’ve been working since you were a kid. Mikey, when did you start working?

MADISON I was almost 16 years old.

SWINTON I salute you both. You’re still pretty young, aren’t you? It’s quite an achievement to work as young people. It’s hard enough when you are older. Without earning any money, the rest of us were climbing trees.

ZENDAYA Because I’ve witnessed child acting harm people, I have a complex relationship with the concept. I’m really happy with how things worked out. There are things I wish I had done in private, but I wouldn’t change a thing because you’re still figuring yourself out in front of the world. And you say, “I’m trying to do this correctly.”. I don’t really know who I am yet, but I want to please everyone. I don’t know what I’m doing. “.”.

I can’t wait to see you discover your amazing life, SWINTON.

ZENDAYA Thank you. Pottery and scones. However, I value having these kinds of moments because I feel like the connections are at least now established. Because you all have such valuable experience, I can reach out and ask questions. I’m frequently too anxious to ask for help when I need it.

Furthermore, feeling as though you have some experience, strength, or hope that you could share with someone is a true gift. In fact, that enriches. In other words, make contact.

ZENDAYA Sure, I will. After this, I’ll obtain everyone’s contact details.

I’ll assist you in setting up the bakery, SWINTON.

MOORE In addition, I can assist you with the pottery.

ZENDAYA (Giggles). That just came to me. That’s so funny. That’s exactly what we did in Euphoria. We performed [Ghost’s pottery scene].

MOORE Oh my God, you did? In actuality, I was terrible at pottery. Literally, mine resembled kindergarten pots.

SWINTON Demi, Ghost, Ghost! Oh my God!

I also just got it, SALDAÑA.

Tilda, Pedro Almodóvar is a quick worker. He is a guy who only takes one or two chances. Some lengthy monologues can be found in The Room Next Door. Were you doing things in one or two takes or did you ask him for more?

SWINTON Both. Someone was pleading. However, it appears that he is aware of his desires. I was anxious about that as well. He was moving too quickly, and I was afraid that we wouldn’t have time to squeeze the orange in all directions, which is something I really enjoy. David Fincher, with whom I collaborated, is renowned for his willingness to try a hundred takes. Additionally, I also adore that. Because you’ll know you’ve done it then. Everything is present.

Is there anyone here who ever requests a second take?

Definitely Madison. We would occasionally be stealing shots on [Anora]. In order to film on the street while attempting to steal, we would take this film camera into eateries, clubs, and pool halls. And sometimes you don’t think you understand. The thought is, “Let’s just go in one more time,” but you are unable to do so. Furthermore, because of our film’s extremely tight budget, there were days when we were merely cramming scenes together in an effort to finish them. “Wait, I just need something more,” I say. But when we watch it again, we realize that what we got was perfect for the time because the movie is so fast-paced. You want to make sure you have it as an actress. Furthermore, it is not feasible. No such thing exists.

There is no way, SWINTON. In any case, I think that this is perhaps the hardest part of the work—letting go, moving on, and having the self-control to simply say, “Do you know what? I didn’t think I got it, but getting it is impossible.”. In any case, we frequently believe we have it. So what do I know? As a director, Angelina, you can tell that the actor believes it was done perfectly. Actually, though, that is the overshot. And the one that felt a little rickety and there was some kind of weird energy around it, that’s the golden thing. You can’t always sense that on the inside, though. Because of this, a director can say, “Believe me, we got it.”. We’re moving on. ” And you have to go, “OK, I trust you. ” It’s a feat of faith.

How has directing influenced your acting style, Angelina?

JOLIE I was always a cast member who loved the crew and recognized that I was a part of the whole. However, you are much more conscious of all the needs and all the pieces after working as a director. You also realize that an actor is a piece, but an important one. As an actor, casting piqued my interest. Perhaps you’re searching for something other than a flawless reading or presentation. It’s someone who has something behind those eyes, someone who’s a little messy, someone who’s a little brave. An interesting person is a big part of what makes an actor interesting. The actors, I push them and I root for them.

You put on all these prosthetics and transform into this creature in The Substance, Demi. How was the act of wearing all of that and acting accordingly?

MOORE You don’t have practice time with everything on. You’re finding it, in some respects, on the day. I spent a considerable amount of time in the chair—between six and nine and a half hours. However—and Zoe, you should be aware of this as well—it’s much simpler to read on paper than to actually be inside. I also think the time in the chair is helpful if you can get very still, very Zen. At that time, the progress was gradual. It’s so delicate that you can’t really eat or drink anything. Everything will come crashing down. And probably the most challenging is having somebody touch you constantly all the time.

SWINTON However, the most difficult part is removing it, isn’t it?

SALDAÑA No, it’s actually much quicker. After opening a bottle of wine, you put on Sam Cooke.

Coralie [Fargeat], the director of [The Substance], loved to do a lot of takes. Each part of the scene where I wipe makeup off my face required at least 15 takes. And I could have used a few less.

Zendaya’s epic science fiction film, Dune: Part Two, is based on a romance. How did you decide to flirt in space?

ZENDAYA The sun made it impossible for us to shoot one scene for more than an hour each day. First, Denis [Villeneuve] would say, “I’m going to do a glances pass.” You might be thinking, “Okay, we were here yesterday, but how do we get back into that, the tenderness and finding these moments?”. Just look at each other from across the room. It seems to me that you can accomplish a lot without using words. A single look between them created this romantic tale and convinced you of its veracity. I just felt very lucky to be a part of it. I just said, “I’ll play a tree, the sand worm,” right from the start. What are you in need of? This is really awesome. All I want to do is be there. ”.

How much does global geopolitics influence the projects you choose to work on?

SALDAÑA It’s entirely independent. Early in my career, I experienced a few self-made turning points where I realized that, as a Latina in America and the daughter of immigrants, I had a duty to represent my community. And I stopped that. It was my decision. Rather than attempting to take on these social causes, I hoped that by following my passion and developing as an artist, I would benefit my community. Because I would feel really overwhelmed. And once you establish a connection with members of your community, you can look at them and ask them, “Follow your heart.”. By taking care of yourself, you will be able to assist your community.

Tilda, I want to end by sharing something you said in an interview. You and Almodóvar were discussing your friendship. You mentioned that you were “both shy and tickled pink and pinching ourselves, but not confident enough to step in and talk to, say, Angelina Jolie.” You claimed to have met at a party in Hollywood and that you bonded over feeling like outsiders.

SWINTON She was there. We had Liza Minnelli over here and we had Sacha Baron Cohen over there and Angie was there. And both Pedro and I were scorched with the glamour of it. We just couldn’t believe that we were present.

JOLIE And I was probably ­— because I never go out — really alone and not sure anybody wanted to talk to me. And probably I would’ve been so happy had they said hello.

SWINTON And this is the truth of human animals: We’re all shy. ”.